Where does Sam fit in???

[vyperdd]

As a follow up to my last post about my issues about Sam getting the short end of the stick when it comes to interacting and connecting with characters other than Dean, I came across something that sums up my feelings perfectly, both in regards to Sam being always on the outside and to what I see as an unwillingness, if not outright, refusal of SOME -- (not all, but definitely more than a few) Dean/Jensen fans to understand why us Sam fans are upset about how the writers have treated (and in our eyes-- ignored) Sam over the years.

http://www.tvovermind.com/supernatural/supernatural-review-season-8-episode-11-larp-and-the-real-girl and in the comments was this exchange. I didn't comment on the original post but I do have some thoughts of my own to include here.

Amy:
I think what JAne is sort of responding to is the writer saying how Dean fits into the Larping world. Dean also fits into the prison life, he fits in the hunting world.
Sam howwever doesn’t fit in anywhere. He doesn’t fit in prison, normal life, the hunting world, the larping world.Where does Sam fit? I’d like for show to show me where exactly Sam fits.

Me: I agree with this so much. I'd also add that Dean fitted very well into the film industry setting in "HollyWood Babylon" to the point that he was practically working as a PA and completely accepted by cast members and other crew.

Sam:
Sam doesn’t need to fit in everywhere Dean does. But if Dean fits into every situation the writers dream up then where does that leave Sam? Why can’t Sam fit somewhere that Dean doesn’t? Why can’t Sam have a bonding session with a guest or recurring charector? Why is it ALWAYS Dean who gets these interactions?

Me: Again, I totally agree. Most of the interaction Sam does with other characters is interviewing them as victims or interrogating them as suspects. Not exactly situations where Sam can open up and discuss his feelings/thoughts and emotions.

Clarissa (the writer of the review):
I’m not sure if by “writer” you mean me, the writer of this review, or the writer of the episode, but if you did mean me I don’t see why you would say that Sam doesn’t fit in anywhere. I thought that it’s been made clear over the years that Sam has embraced hunting as a way of life and is a very good hunter. Like Dean, I think he still clings to the idea of a normal life, but his decision not to reunite with Amelia was clearly him embracing hunting. As for prison, why is it a bad thing that Sam doesn’t fit in in prison? Why must Sam fit in everywhere that Dean does? Why can’t the boys be good at different things? That way, they tend to compliment one another instead of being identical.

Me: We aren't saying that Sam has to fit in everywhere Dean does and I agree that the boys should be good at different things/situations. The problem for me and other Sam fans is that we are only seeing situations where Dean fits in. I can't recall a single time where the focus has been on Sam fitting in somewhere, getting the type of pleasure by immersing himself totally like Dean has on numerous occassions. If someone can point 1 out , then please do. I still even struggle to say what sort of music Sam likes, what his favourite movies are, how he likes to hang out and relax.

Clarissa:
And Sam obviously fits into the LARPing world. He might not have embraced his inner-nerd as gleefully as Dean did, but it was *his* suggestion that they join in at the end.

Me: This I disagree with. It was Dean showing all the enthusiasm of the LARP'ing world, suggesting battle tactics to Charlie, saying that the Moondoor website looked awesome. Sam only joined in right at the end, I think, because he saw how much Dean had enjoyed himself. Had something happened and Sam was there by himself, I think he would have left as soon as the case was solved and not gotten into costume and taken part in the final battle.

Clarissa:
I don’t know why you would insist that Sam doesn’t fit in anywhere. By Dean’s own admission, Sam has generally connected a lot more to their victims of the week and finds it a lot easier to talk to victims. He’s very sympathetic when it comes to that type of work. If you feel that Sam doesn’t fit in anywhere that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it, but I don’t think the show supports that theory.

And Sam has connected very well to a lot of guest stars. He bonded very nicely with Jodi when Dean was stuck in the past, for example.

Me: Wow, 1 character in 1 episode out of about 160. I can name a couple of others, Mr Wyatt in After School Special, Young John in Song Remains The Same, but that is still far less than all the people Dean has confided in and interacted 1 on 1 with over the seasons.

Amy:
Apparently the writers dont agree with Dean since Dean is the one who bonds with all recurring charectors as well as the victims while Sam is ‘researching’. Jody was two years ago in showtime and there is no evidence to suggest she will be returning anytime soon.

Me: Agree again.


Clarissa:
Alright, I’m bowing out of this Sam vs. Dean debate since it’s clearly never-ending and neither side is prepared to entertain the possibility that the other side might have a point. I’m sorry you feel that Sam is a victim of the writers’ choices or Dean’s “superiority” or whatever, but I’ve never seen Sam as a victim of anything other than some terrible circumstances that have befallen both him and his brother.

Roxi:
As for Dean bonding with more guest stars well, Sam is the only one SPN feels deserving of real romances, so it’s a tradeoff. I guess Dean isn’t supposed to have anything of his own. Sam should have all the love stories, all the best story arcs, AND bond with all the guest stars. And Dean should be? Off the show I guess, since SPN doesn’t think his character matters except to look after/be resented by Sam, and be a foil, for Cas.

Me: We don't think Sam should have everything. Neither brother should. All we are asking for is that both brothers get an EQUAL share of the storyline and interactions with other characters. We have seen plenty of examples of Dean fitting in. It is way, way past time to see Sam have that same sort of time in the spotlight.



Comments

[vyperdd.livejournal.com]

If LARP was a 1 off and the first ep where Sam didn't get to dress-up or for as much of the ep as Dean, it probably only would have made me momentarily annoyed and I would have moved on and not even thought about commenting on it. But what got me really upset and frustrated is that it's the latest in a list or eps where Dean has been the only one to dress-up and have fun.

I guess this is more of a case of wanting to drool over Jared in some really great outfits out of the norm of what Sam usually wears, rather than purely about Sam. Call me shallow if you will but 1 reason I watch is for the eye-candy! It probably also didn't help that I was pretty hyped for this ep, esp after seeing the preview of Sam in costume and really getting my hopes up that I'd finally get to see what I'd been waiting years for. So I was just setting myself up for a nasty crash and burn when my expectations weren't met.

But even Sam himself admitted in Skin (I think) that he didn't really fit in at Stanford. I find it so sad that there really is no place that Sam will ever really fit in and be happy and content.

From what you've written I get the feeling that you are saying that Sam not fitting in is part of his characterisation and that, therefor, the writers aren't doing him any diservice by not writing scenarios where he can let loose and have fun like we've seen Dean do countless times. If I'm wrong with my assumptions, then feel free to correct me.

But if this is true, then it only makes me more frustrated that it means that things are unlikely to change and that I can give up hope of ever seeing Sam enjoying himself like Dean does.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hey,

Well, in terms of eye candy we did get to see him shirtless at least this season!

Hmmm....Sam having fun. That really is a tricky one. I do hold out hope that we will get to see him have some (real) fun. I think the last time Sam really had fun was when he was playing pranks on Dean - way back in S1.

I actually do think that Sam finding somewhere to fit in IS part of his character arc. I think that's why when he was blood drinking it felt so right to him (unfortunately). He felt powerful and he had purpose. Of course all that was shattered when he learned he was being played. He wasn't having fun of course, be I think he felt like he was fitting in somewhere.

I think the idea of Sam fitting in (or not) is an interesting one and worthy of some meta (I'd love to have the time for that!). I almost feel like the penny has dropped in regards to a major part of his characterization. Sam is constantly seeking a place to fit in - we seldom see him really happy (which is incredibly sad). In most cases he just gets on and is sometimes content but there doesn't seem to be the ONE thing that makes him happy - like pie, or the impala, or burgers.

(hee... we should "battle" this out in person sometime. ;) I had great fun chatting through all the issues with redteekal recently. I think it's easier to discuss the deeper issues in person).

[vyperdd.livejournal.com]

Yes, I will always love any morsel of ShirtlessSam that we are blessed with. I was amazed and very, very happy at how long the scene was in 603. Had only seen pics of the actual workout, so thought that was all there would be. Loved, loved, loved it when the shirt stayed off after he finished working out, all the way through the convo with the hooker and the phone call with Dean. And then we got still more long, loving looks from the camera before it cut to an add. Definitely spoiled that day.

I think you're right about when we last saw Sam really happy and care-free.

Count me in on any future "battles". There is nothing better than watching my fav show with other people who truly understand our passion for the boys.