Where does Sam fit in???

[vyperdd]

As a follow up to my last post about my issues about Sam getting the short end of the stick when it comes to interacting and connecting with characters other than Dean, I came across something that sums up my feelings perfectly, both in regards to Sam being always on the outside and to what I see as an unwillingness, if not outright, refusal of SOME -- (not all, but definitely more than a few) Dean/Jensen fans to understand why us Sam fans are upset about how the writers have treated (and in our eyes-- ignored) Sam over the years.

http://www.tvovermind.com/supernatural/supernatural-review-season-8-episode-11-larp-and-the-real-girl and in the comments was this exchange. I didn't comment on the original post but I do have some thoughts of my own to include here.

Amy:
I think what JAne is sort of responding to is the writer saying how Dean fits into the Larping world. Dean also fits into the prison life, he fits in the hunting world.
Sam howwever doesn’t fit in anywhere. He doesn’t fit in prison, normal life, the hunting world, the larping world.Where does Sam fit? I’d like for show to show me where exactly Sam fits.

Me: I agree with this so much. I'd also add that Dean fitted very well into the film industry setting in "HollyWood Babylon" to the point that he was practically working as a PA and completely accepted by cast members and other crew.

Sam:
Sam doesn’t need to fit in everywhere Dean does. But if Dean fits into every situation the writers dream up then where does that leave Sam? Why can’t Sam fit somewhere that Dean doesn’t? Why can’t Sam have a bonding session with a guest or recurring charector? Why is it ALWAYS Dean who gets these interactions?

Me: Again, I totally agree. Most of the interaction Sam does with other characters is interviewing them as victims or interrogating them as suspects. Not exactly situations where Sam can open up and discuss his feelings/thoughts and emotions.

Clarissa (the writer of the review):
I’m not sure if by “writer” you mean me, the writer of this review, or the writer of the episode, but if you did mean me I don’t see why you would say that Sam doesn’t fit in anywhere. I thought that it’s been made clear over the years that Sam has embraced hunting as a way of life and is a very good hunter. Like Dean, I think he still clings to the idea of a normal life, but his decision not to reunite with Amelia was clearly him embracing hunting. As for prison, why is it a bad thing that Sam doesn’t fit in in prison? Why must Sam fit in everywhere that Dean does? Why can’t the boys be good at different things? That way, they tend to compliment one another instead of being identical.

Me: We aren't saying that Sam has to fit in everywhere Dean does and I agree that the boys should be good at different things/situations. The problem for me and other Sam fans is that we are only seeing situations where Dean fits in. I can't recall a single time where the focus has been on Sam fitting in somewhere, getting the type of pleasure by immersing himself totally like Dean has on numerous occassions. If someone can point 1 out , then please do. I still even struggle to say what sort of music Sam likes, what his favourite movies are, how he likes to hang out and relax.

Clarissa:
And Sam obviously fits into the LARPing world. He might not have embraced his inner-nerd as gleefully as Dean did, but it was *his* suggestion that they join in at the end.

Me: This I disagree with. It was Dean showing all the enthusiasm of the LARP'ing world, suggesting battle tactics to Charlie, saying that the Moondoor website looked awesome. Sam only joined in right at the end, I think, because he saw how much Dean had enjoyed himself. Had something happened and Sam was there by himself, I think he would have left as soon as the case was solved and not gotten into costume and taken part in the final battle.

Clarissa:
I don’t know why you would insist that Sam doesn’t fit in anywhere. By Dean’s own admission, Sam has generally connected a lot more to their victims of the week and finds it a lot easier to talk to victims. He’s very sympathetic when it comes to that type of work. If you feel that Sam doesn’t fit in anywhere that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it, but I don’t think the show supports that theory.

And Sam has connected very well to a lot of guest stars. He bonded very nicely with Jodi when Dean was stuck in the past, for example.

Me: Wow, 1 character in 1 episode out of about 160. I can name a couple of others, Mr Wyatt in After School Special, Young John in Song Remains The Same, but that is still far less than all the people Dean has confided in and interacted 1 on 1 with over the seasons.

Amy:
Apparently the writers dont agree with Dean since Dean is the one who bonds with all recurring charectors as well as the victims while Sam is ‘researching’. Jody was two years ago in showtime and there is no evidence to suggest she will be returning anytime soon.

Me: Agree again.


Clarissa:
Alright, I’m bowing out of this Sam vs. Dean debate since it’s clearly never-ending and neither side is prepared to entertain the possibility that the other side might have a point. I’m sorry you feel that Sam is a victim of the writers’ choices or Dean’s “superiority” or whatever, but I’ve never seen Sam as a victim of anything other than some terrible circumstances that have befallen both him and his brother.

Roxi:
As for Dean bonding with more guest stars well, Sam is the only one SPN feels deserving of real romances, so it’s a tradeoff. I guess Dean isn’t supposed to have anything of his own. Sam should have all the love stories, all the best story arcs, AND bond with all the guest stars. And Dean should be? Off the show I guess, since SPN doesn’t think his character matters except to look after/be resented by Sam, and be a foil, for Cas.

Me: We don't think Sam should have everything. Neither brother should. All we are asking for is that both brothers get an EQUAL share of the storyline and interactions with other characters. We have seen plenty of examples of Dean fitting in. It is way, way past time to see Sam have that same sort of time in the spotlight.



Comments

[pocochina.livejournal.com]

(I didn't read the link because I try to limit my exposure to fandom-at-large off of my happy little f-list, but what you have reproduced here is an interesting conversation, so thank you for posting!)

I'm not sure Sam will ever fit in well with groups? I just don't think he likes those dynamics as much. It doesn't mean he's shown as being joyless. Off the top of my head, Sam likes dogs, he likes football (Heartache), he likes Harry Potter (D&D Tattoo). I don't think he would enjoy throwing himself into those things wholeheartedly in the way Dean likes slipping into different systems and personas. I think that's character-consistent for both of them. And I like that about Sam? That he's more reserved and not so good at seizing fun where he can. It's a part of why he struggles with the life in a way that Dean doesn't, because those small opportunities to recharge aren't available to him.

Same with the guest characters, though I do think he's connected nicely with more than just Jodi. I think it's a part of his characterization that he prefers to be Library Guy and let Dean do the charming and fast-talking. It's a part of how they compliment each other, that Dean likes socializing even though Sam's the one that is really interested in joining society.

I wouldn't want to lose that part of the character. I don't think it's bad writing, I think it's subtle writing, and I find it more appealing for that. I get that it's tough to watch, because it's so easy to sympathize with Sam's struggling, but to me that's a mark of good writing, that I can understand what he's thinking even if he's not taking up a lot of space in the foreground.

(I am, otoh, extremely frustrated with how some, though far from most, Dean fans seem insistent on reading Sam, but of course that's an unfortunate given.)

[vyperdd.livejournal.com]

Thanks for these thoughts. They make a lot of sense. I've just got to come to an acceptance that the writers aren't likely to start writing Sam throwing himself into things like Dean does. It still makes me sad but I am slowly coming to terms with it.

I've even watched LARP a couple of times since I posted my initial thoughts and while it won't ever be high on my favourite lists, I am enjoying it a little bit more each time. Wacthing it with your and Ash's comments in mind has certainly helped ease the negative feelings I first had.